The trouble with MMM

If the growth stops, so will the flow of money.
The website of Sergey Mavrodi.

JOHANNESBURG – Social financial network, MMM needs a continuous stream of new members to join the system in order to provide existing members with financial assistance. And herein lies its number one problem.

If no new members join the so-called “mutual financial aid scheme” then the flow of money between members – described as “donations” by those on the inside – will simply dry up. This is because MMM relies on new capital entering the system to pay its members, rather than actual profits earned from selling goods and services.

This infographic illustrates the problem:

MMM Infographic-01

Source: Moneyweb

In South Africa, MMM advertises potential growth of 30% per month on deposits – a potential return of 360% per year, which makes it a “multiplication scheme” or ponzi scheme in terms of the Consumer Protection Act (CPA).

Once you have registered with MMM, you need to first provide financial assistance by donating a minimum of R100 before you receive your Mavro, which according to the website is an internal currency that begins to grow at 30% per month.

The system then gives you a bank account number to which you are directed to transfer the financial assistance you have decided to provide. Once the recipient of the money confirms receipt, your Mavro become active and allow you to request financial assistance, also known as ‘getting help’.

One of the consultants on MMM South Africa’s website explained it to Moneyweb in the following way:

“When you get help, the system declares how long your money has stayed and for that you are rewarded in the form of interest. All the money provided to you or any member is coming from the community. The system declares you have this much and then looks for someone to cover your get help, be it with or without your interest including (sic). We are able to afford this as we have a lot of members not only in South Africa but across many countries as well, which all together are willing to make donations for members of the community that needs help.”

In other words, if no new members join, no new ‘help’ will be provided.

Mavro is there to balance the inflow and outflow of money, and its growth rate can be adjusted to keep this balance in check, according to administrators of MMM South Africa’s Facebook page.

This suggests that if anyone decides to stop ‘providing help’, given that Mavro is balancing the flow, people will stop ‘getting help’.

“There are no promises or guarantees… MMM is just a platform and guarantees nothing,” according to the administrators.

Debunking myths

There’s a lot of misinformation out there regarding MMM. Of concern is that a lot of the misinformation comes from MMM members themselves.

MYTH: MMM puts banks out of business

FACT: Members of MMM use their existing bank accounts to transfer money to one another. If they did not have bank accounts they would not be able to transfer money. In other words, MMM relies on banks and the banking system to keep it going.

MYTH: The SA government has declared that MMM ‘is not a scam’

FACT: This is a blatant lie. There has been no official communication from the government whatsoever to this effect. In fact, the commercial crimes unit within the South African Police Services (SAPS) – known as the Hawks – is investigating MMM as we speak, after the National Consumer Commission (NCC) found that MMM was contravening the CPA.

MYTH: Capitalism is evil and MMM is anti-capitalist

FACT: According to some MMM members, capitalists “hate it when you buy your cars, clothes, TVs, houses”. Nonsense! Capitalism thrives off heightened economic activity – i.e. when people spend money and there is demand for goods and services. Capitalists support what is known as a free market economy, which is one that is based on supply or demand with little government intervention.

Socialism, on the other hand, says that the state should determine how much money people make, how wealth is distributed, and what goods and services cost.

Since the point of joining MMM is to grow your money and supposedly enhance your access to goods and services, MMM is in fact a great supporter of the capitalist system.

MYTH: MMM members do not have to pay donations tax

FACT: In terms of the Income Tax Act, once an individual has exceeded R100 000 in donations made in a given tax year – which could be made to a single or multiple other individuals – he or she is then liable to pay 20% tax on donations made over and above that.

Some of the exceptions to this rule are where donations are made to charities or between spouses, but these exceptions do not apply to MMM members.

MYTH: Banks have paid media to discredit MMM

FACT: Yet another barefaced lie from those within the MMM community. As a watchdog acting in the public interest, the media is trying to explain to members of the public what the risks involved with MMM are, so that they fully understand what they are exposing themselves to if they decide to join.

As noted in a previous article, MMM preys on the poor, who are understandably frustrated with a financial and economic system that seems to benefit only a few to the exclusion of the many.

Tragically, this makes them vulnerable to ‘get rick quick’ schemes, which, if history is anything to go by, leave people worse off than they were before.

Sergey Mavrodi, the founder of MMM, was jailed after cheating millions of low-income Russians out of their savings.

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COMMENTS   46

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“a financial and economic system that seems to benefit only a few to the exclusion of the many”

Not seems, it does, and by design.

Unfortunately MMM and other Ponzi schemes target people with limited mathematical knowledge all over the world. These people believe that such schemes and lottery is the only way they can get rich and most of the rich people used such method to make money. A few years ago a black guy I was working with asked me to write for him a computer program which would generate all the possible lottery numbers, so he could win lot of money. When I tried to explain to him using a calculator that the cost of the tickets would be much more than the payout, he would not believe me and accused me of racism because I would not let him become a multimillionaire.

Good to see a schematic of the process. Perhaps the MMM supporters will now get the picture, as the thousand words alternative doesn’t seem to have sunk in. Just one other point – Mavrodi (before he allegedly went “missing”) and his allies have more recently been at pains to deliver the message that it’s not really about the 30% per month, and the emphasis is on the public helping one another. Nonsense.

MMM 30% will collapse some day as reported by media, for now South Africans are buying new cars cash, Home loans are paid up in no time, school fees paid in advance.
The number of South Africans taking loans from loan sharks is reduced dramatically.
We have see an increase in number of people attending MMM presentations.
We has so many MMM charity events in disadvantaged communities within the SADC region, you may watch some of the events on Youtube.

Except we have not idea how many of those “investing” in MMM is borrowing from loan sharks to “invest” in MMM. Because that is how business operate, borrow and a lower rate and utilize the money to get a higher return, So even borrowing @ 20% per month from a loan shark could make it look as if you can make a profit if you get a return of 30% a month. This could potentially make it worse and then people are not just losing their own money but still end up owing money to others that they loaned to invest.

The writer is confused with a Ponzi scheme and don’t know the mechanics behind MMM. MMM is not a Ponzi, correct description doesn’t exist yet. Your explanation is wrong. You are correct, Sizwe did received his R130 from John who donated R130. Sizwe takes his R30 profit and buys himself a gift as reward for the risk he took and now have his R100 back in his pocket. By this time 2 months have lapsed, Sizwe have saved an extra R100 and Sizwe do a new donation of R200 and he is going to receive R260 back. After 1 month he request help of R260, of the R260 he spent R60 and donate R200 again and so it continues. So in actual fact the scheme can exist without new members even if Sizwe just donated R100 again instead of R200. All over the world banks and governments are printing and creating money out of thin air all this newly created money only benefit the already rich and too big to fail companies and every time it devalues the underlying currency, so the poor is getting poorer. If banks and governments print money then everybody must have their own money printer at home to keep it fair. MMM is your own money printer at home. It is not sustainable to print or create digits of money on a bank server doesn’t matter if it is the government, federal bank, reserve bank or you at home. As Mr Mavrodi from MMM explains the financial apocalypse is coming sooner or later, at least every body have fair access with MMM to print money out of thin air before all fiat currencies will disappear. Look at the number of MMM participants worldwide and especially in RSA. Who is going to borrow from the corrupt and unjust financial system again if you can print your own money. Even after all the negative publicity MMM is signing on thousands of new members in RSA and worldwide. We are living in a changing world if you are reading this do yourself a favor and make sure you don’t get left behind and still work for your money

You simply CANNOT print your own money. If you did, the the amount in circulation would increase to the degree that it becomes worthless. Let Germany in the 1930’s and Zimbabwe be lessons for you. You are not thinking straight.

though he may not be thinking straight, Crypto currency is here to stay.

If I were Sizwe, I would take my R100 rand and donate, right, and then at the end of the month “get assistance” for R130, then take that R130 and donate it again. Then after another month I will “get assistance” for R169. I’ll keep doing this every month. After 3 years of doing this I will “get assistance” for R1 264 621.86 (yes that’s over a million rand). If I carry on for 5 years and 2 months, I will “get assistance” for R1 160 079 742.19 (that’s over a billion rand!). Thanks to gullible people, those that got in early and get out before the collapse will be made millionaires if not billionaires. You are not “making” money or “printing” money, you are stealing it from others that join the scheme after you.

So lets talk. So you think it is nessescarry to withdraw billions of rand when you dont need it? How about take an example a person who has R1 Billion in his bank account. Do you think he would withdrawl all the money at once? I mean NO! For what for??? You dont NEED R1 Billion RIGHT NOW right? So he would withdraw about R30000 a month which is perfect enough for most people yet invested only R100 after 5 years. Make sense? This is the perfect way to balance things out and give everyone a chance! What would happen if everybody withdraw all the money at the bank? Yes it would calopase without a doubt! As for stealing wow what a clueless person you are! So for example if i give someone R100 because I want to stealing? No but if the person is taking R100 out without my knowledge that is stealing! With MMM everyone who join agree to give money and help people as simple as that! Stop twisting nonsense out of your mouth!!!

What if I want to buy a house. Just a simple three bedroom home in the suburbs? I donate R100 now, keep “reinvesting” my “returns” for three years, and hey presto, I have my R1.2-million to buy a house cash. But I only put R100 into the system. Where did the rest of the money come from? Whose money is it?

You are assuming SIZWE redonates his money! If he doesnt then the PYRAMID collapses

I agree, we do want new members obviously to improve our lives and theirs but we can sustain our system between ourselves now already. It will obviously go slower but will still work perfectly.

Hi G8keeper, thanks for your comment. The fundamental assumption made is that members do in fact re-donate their money and do not simply keep it and exit the system.

It is not true that MMM relies only on banks, crypto currencies are her and there are crypto debit cards that one can use for purchases without being linked to any bank.
The banks exist because of us, therefore without anyone of there wouldn’t be banks, though the banking system favours a few (shareholders), typical Pyramid scheme.

are there really that many people out there that are convinced by this scheme? how have they managed to survive to adulthood?

My concern is that most people who are not participants of MMM seem to be more worried about the participants losing money. What do you care? If you are not a participant, why do you give a rats ass what happens to the participants losing money? Seems to me like deep down inside many of you non participants want to join because you have seen people make money. Why isn’t the people who lost money with MMM come forward…so far its only happy participants that I hear of. And critics that are jealous of them making money.

Because those who stand to lose the most can likely afford it the least, and then what? In 6 months time we hear about 100% salary increase demands because these people have lost their money and need to survive. So now the rest of us need to pay more for our products because these participants dump their money in this ponzi scheme.

And as this article explained these schemes can function as long as new money joined, so there is still not any people who lost money as there are still lots of people joining, however that grow cannot continue into infinity.

How anyone can try and argue that this is not a ponzi is beyond me. Bitcoins and crypto currencies seem to be one of the fashionable new hooks for a number of new MLM opprtunities that look suspiciously like pyramid or HYIP scams. Beware also of Bitclub and Skilldragon/ Yobsn.

It seems that the word of a convicted Russian fraudster is of greater value than a knowledge of how compound interest works.

They can mention mmm in different names,ponzi,pyramid,whatever,and try by all means to shut it down,but we as south African will never fort what mavrodi has done to us,I have a family of 11,am the only bread winner,my 2 sisters died,and left me with their kids,I used to support all this 7 children with salary of 5200,I was struggling, I couldn’t even,buy enough clothes for them or enough food ,for the whole month,since I joined mmm,last year may,my life has changed,it’s so amazing,I renovated my mother’s house,my children, always eating healthy food,they have clothes,like other children,all of because of mmm,a man from Russia,doing things for us that,our gov has failed to do for us,my 18yr old son,has money to go to university next year,because of mmm,yes I knw one day mmm will collapse because of media and our jealous gov,buti will never blame mavrodi,never,thank you

ATT: Hanna Ziady, Hi Hanna, do you have any slight idea what you are talking about? This article proves that you have not fully idea how MMM works. Yes these pictures above are correct that if Sizwe donate R100 and ask R130 will receive assistance from John after John donated R130 and so on. But what you are so wrong and everyone that are enemy to mmm is that it is NOT necessary to get new members to pay the existed members! Lets take a example now Sizwe took R130 out BUT he will put R130 BACK again after first month to pay eg Joe who asked for assistance of R130 and so on. Then Sizwe will get R169 AND put it back to help another people instead of Joe and so on. If Sizwe do this for a year he would have helped 12 people compared to someone who put R100 and leave it for a year which would be R2300. This is extremely unhealthy so managers/guiders teach and train people to do correctly. About the MYTH i dont know where you get that from but it was freaking funny! I heard nobody said such MYTH list you provided except Banks paid media to discredit MMM which is TRUE! Banks KNOWS they see more and more people will become debt free and they DONT like it! It is absurd and ridiculous! Plus EVERYONE KNOWS the RISK as it show on the website! So leave MMM Members alone! Just as its like there are RISK that you will lose your money if participate in a casino. But participate in casino have higher risk of losing money compared to MMM. MMM changed so many people lives while casino only lucky members win! So unfair if you see my point so why not rather investigate casino then since the rate are so high of losing money anyway! About tax, EVERYONE knows they are responsible for tax for they earnings and we discuss with our people and in presentations so its not a problem! The problem i have with sars is that crooks like Zuma, etc are using tax money for they personal gains and not to improve the country! 4billion jet? for what for??? instead of fix and repair asphalt road! Lastly lol we dont need banks to participate mmm as we can use bitcoins! I know bitcoins are closed its because nobody has a clue how bitcoins works in RSA but may change in the future as more and more ppl will learn and know about cyptro currencies!

Hi Eightlaps, thanks for your comment. You are making the assumption that Sizwe does put his money back again, as opposed to simply deciding to keep it and exit the system, which he has the freedom to do.

Hanna, I will get to you just now. Firstly I just want to “talk” to a few of the clever people that commented.
The Hun, are you implying that all 1.5 million people in SA that are part of MMM have limited mathematical knowledge, and the same for 200 million people around the world. They are all a bunch of idiots that can’t think for themselves – and then there is The Hun, a mathematical wizard that knows all the answers even though he is not part of MMM and haven’t got a cooking clue how it works and why it works. My suggestion to you ( and all the other nay sayers) join the community and experience it first hand. Don’t be scared man, put R100 in and see what happens. Six months from now, your comment will be totally different, that I can promise you.
Phil99, even the pictures could not help you to “get the picture”. Please don’t join MMM. Go study G8keeper’s explanation, he has got the picture. Never mind, you won’t get it. Please don’t join MMM, as I said.
Hanna. OK, so let’s talk about your “Light bulb moment”. I quote “MMM needs a continuous stream of new members, and therein lies it’s number one problem”. Now Hannah, I suppose if you write articles for Money Web, you should also have a basic understanding of business (or maybe not). Firstly the success of MMM is only partly dependent on new members joining, because it is a self regenerating system dependent on new money coming into the system (now don’t get exited, I will explain). Every time that I pledge money into the system, part of it or all of it is new money. New people joining just make it stronger and more sustainable, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS !!!!!!! Show me any business that does not need new clients, members, customers, participants or what ever. That, my dear, is how business grow. So, it is not a new concept and it surely is not only applicable to MMM.
As a last word, I would like to second Mseja. The people in MMM are all happy and exited with hope for the future and the chance to provide a better life for their families and their community. What the Government promised but could not deliver,
can now become a reality for many, many many people. Explain to me what is bad or wrong about that. If you are not in MMM, please mind your own business and let us be. If you don’t like it, you don’t like it and we won’t bug you about your decision. Stop bugging us about our decision. We are not a bunch of morons that need your opinion or protection.
But the door is open, for you and you and you and The Hun and on second thoughts, even for Phil99. Come join MMM, it’s amazing – you will love it ! (I am still not 100% sure about Phil99 ??)

Buddy , I am a member of MMM and have PH of 100000 and Paid it out to the persons wanting GH.
I now want to GH and according to MMM Guiders there is now a limit on my GH yet i have given 100k so why should i be limited????
The system will collapse and everyone will say its Bad media or something else but it isnt it i simple MATHS and GREED that has brought it to its knees.

Example even you can understand:

John PH of 1000 so can according to MMM GH of 1300
So John tells Mary and she PH of 1000
Mary tells Simpiwe who PH of 1000

NOW John wants to GH so he asks for 1300 + 100(his 10%referal) + 50(his 5%referal) so 1450 is requested.
Where does this come from??? Mary and Simpiwes PH of course.
Now Mary want to GH yet Simpiwe hasnt recruited anyone so Mary cant GH and system collapse.
John didnt put his money back in cos he bought something.
Now both Mary and Simpiwe are out 1000 each.

Now say the members were 10000 strong all recruitedby John(A Guider)
Each member PH of 1000
So John PH of 1000 as well YET he can GH of 1million simply because of his referral bonuses!!! So he hasnt actually added any VALUE but has Bled the system dry!!!
AND eventually no more members join and MMM collapses all because of GREED!!!
And ironically it is these self same people(THE GUIDERS) that are calling on everyone for more participants and to be patient about GH.

In the End its these Greedy guiders that have brought MMM to its knees. Yes people have homes paid up and cars but most likely its the GUIDERS that have all this….
And the PYRAMID is collapsing, and I am 100k down and not holding my breath for any of it back!!!!!

At last someone who is a member has come forward to acknowledge that they have been taken for a ride. I sincerely hope that you will still get your 100k back, even though whoever provides it for you will then be the next sucker to lose. I think that one of the reasons so many people have put faith in the system is that it does not “look like” the usual Ponzi. There is no rigid down-line as with the usual scam. You can provide help to people above, below or on the same “level” as you. Yes, MMM has those referral fees you mention, but that is a fairly small amount compared to the “prospect” of earning 30% per month. As you say, it is all grounded in greed. What people must realize is that “money” in notes or coins is just a convenient method of exchange. Behind that money there must be some tangible asset, physical or intellectual. If MMM was to succeed globally, every currency, dollars, euros, sterling, rand and the rest would be of equal value – zilch. It would mean a return to the barter system – my cow for your two sheep – which might not be such a bad idea.

Hi Buddy, thanks for your comment. If new people don’t join, then the existing members will simply keep cycling the same money and if more of them decide to exit the system (which they have the freedom to do), than to stay in it, then those left may have a problem. It’s interesting that you refer to MMM as a business, I thought it was a “mutual financial aid scheme”. A business implies that people part with their money in exchange for goods and services – i.e. they don’t donate money for nothing, they expect something in return. MMM, on the other hand, has been at pains to explain to me that it is simply a flow of donations and that you provide help not necessarily expecting to get anything in return (as is implied by the word donation). In other words, money given between MMM members is effectively given as a free gift. Have I missed something? Or is MMM actually about earning profits and not simply giving your money away for free?

I will join it if i lose no problem it a game sometimes u win or sose

So it’s a game, is it? I thought it was about helping other people.

I am a member of MMM and I have PH and paid out a total amount of 100k
I have requested a GH of what I have paid out and have been told that there are limits on the GH , the reasons given is because of negative publicity and media and members doing a run on the system.
Now I have realised the real reason it is because of Greed!!
Here is why I say this: Lets look at MMM from a purely visual perspective.

John PH = 1000
Mary is recruited by John and PH = 1000
Simpiwe is recruited by Mary and PH =1000

John can GH of 1000+30%(his MMM interest) PLUS 10% of Marys PH PLUS 5% of Simpiwes PH so in the end John GH = 1300+100+50
John GH = 1450 which comes from Marys 1000 and simpiwes 1000.

Now Mary wants to GH but simpiwe hasnt got any more recruits so where does she get her 1300 and 100 from????

The assumption made by MMM participants stated is that John will put his GH back as a PH but he doesnt he spends it.

Now lets say the System is 10000 ppl strong and all were in Johns downline. All PH of 1000
John can then PH of 1000 and GH due to all his referral bonuses of over 1million rand without actually pledging anymore than his original pledge.
And so the system collapses due to greed BUT if more people join and pledge the system survives UNTIL John gets greedy again.

So yes at the end of the day the PYRAMID will topple over and the poor will lose out and the ones that say they did so well with MMM will have been the ones that got in early (All the GUIDERS)….. And these are the same people telling us that recruitment of more members will ensure the survival of MMM when all it assures is they get richer……

I am still waiting for the money I have paid out to be returned with my GH…. and am not holding my breath.

Dear Media,

I am a proud participant of MMM South Africa and I want to ask a few questions and raise my point of view from your slander of our community.
I always thought that the media had freedom of speach to empower the people of south Africa with the truth and knowledge of what is going on in our country. The people count on the media to bring them the truth and the real happenings on the ground.
With huge regret I have to report that with MMM this has not been the case. You have slandered us without investigating the truth of how the system works. You have not tested or investigated it for yourself, if you did you would not call it a scam, Ponzi scheme or anything remotely bad.
So I want to challenge all of you to put in a R100 test it out for yourself over 3 months and then you report back on the truth of MMM.
MMM is not a bank, business, company or investment is and was intended and always will have the intention of uplifting the poor people. Our mission is not to get rich quickly but to allow that single mother who lives in a shack and earn minimum which does not even say hello in today’s economy, to buy her child school shoes, food on the table, a blanket in the winter.
This is not a get rich quick system, it is to improve the living conditions of millions of South Africans with consistency. If you are one of those Mavrodians who think you going to make a quick buck, then think twice you are not standing for the Ideology of MMM.
Mavrodians don’t be greedy, greed is not our system, Provide Help every month and Get Help every month of only what you need. This way we will keep the legacy of MMM alive and balanced for ever.
In light of the above said if the poor of South Africa can afford their own medical expenses, wouldn’t this take the strain of our government’s medial budget, if the poor can afford to buy food for their own children doesn’t this take the strain of the governments welfare budget, if the elderly is well taken care of doesn’t this relieve the government’s pension fund. If the poor of South Africa lives on such a level now that they can even pay taxes, taxes that would otherwise never have been forecasted into SARS’s budget, how much more can the government do for their people. For this country?
THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT MMM, IT HAS NEVER BEEN ILLEGAL TO DONATE MONEY TO ANY PERSON ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
I urge you to think about this as MMM has helped numerous charity organizations it is and always will be to restore dignity to our community. We are not the evil here, the evil here is not allowing us to reach out to people and uplift them in the peaceful manner that we have been doing it.
Click on the link to see all our contributions to charities http://rsa-mmm.co/charity/rsa
I urge you to read and study our Ideology http://rsa-mmm.co/ideology/
MMM can help the people and government, this is the solution for those who are poverty stricken to help themselves.
All Mavrodians have taken a vow to fight for this well worth it cause to restore dignity to our country. We will not sit back and let media, financial institutions or government departments further push our people into poverty stricken control.
And remember we are here to help.
To join our community and improve your life click the link and we will guide you through the process of becoming financially independent http://rsa-mmm.co/?i=lindadcc8@gmail.com

For those who are not MMM members, before you can add a request to assist someone you first need to agree “I read the THE WARNING, and I fully understand all the risks. I make this decision to participate in MMM, being of sound mind and memory”.

No one joins with their eyes closed, I wish people could STOP commenting on decision that we have taken to join MMM. Below is the warning in case you have not seen or read it before, and if I were you @Dazzer I would keep my mouth shut because you also agreed that you have read the warning before making a request to PH with R100k!!!

WARNING!

There are no guarantees and promises! Neither explicit nor implicit. There are neither investments nor business! Participants help each other, sending each other money directly and without intermediaries. That’s all! There’s nothing more. There are no securities transactions, no relationship with the professional participants of the securities market; you do not acquire any securities. (Do you need them? :-)) There are no rules. In principle! The only rule is no rules. At all! Even if you follow all of the instructions, you still may “lose”. “Win” might not be paid. Without any reasons or explanations. And in general, you can lose all your money. Always remember about this and participate only with spare money. Or do not participate at all! Amen. :-))

Tough Guy
of course i read and acknowledged the warning. BUT what i didnt expect was the GUIDERS(maybe you are one) being able to pull so much referall comissions without actually adding much them selves.
One guider stated it perfectly in her down line. Play PH 3.3 times and save up the 30% each time and on the fourth time you are PH help with MONOPOLY MONEY.
Only its not monopoly money its some one elses money that they have PH. And that not counting all the referral bonuses of 10% each time a partricipant directly below does a PH then below them the guide r get 5% of all PH. So its the greedy guiders playing with other peoples money and referral bonuses( other peoples money again) that have caused the downfall. Im asking a GH of 5k and am still in a que so if the sysytem is healthy and flourishing surely 5k wouldnt be such a large amount to GH for yet i see no one matched as yet. MMM made a few people very very rich and alot more very very poor. And I am neither…..

Oh and one more thing Financial appocalypse fo the banking sysytem by MMM is impossible as you need a bank account to be a member. Banks get fees for each and every transaction so in essence MMM has created more bank accounts and more fees for the Banks. People that previously didnt have accounts opened up accounts thereby lining the banks pockets with transaction fees.
FINANCIAL APPOCALYPSE INDEED!!!!!

Think about it!!!!!

So, basically nobody is requesting ‘real’ help here, you are made to WANT help!

1)The way everyone is so happy and winning while banks are furiously pursuing bad debtors is a conflict of 2 credit behaviours which should be at least the same if they are both legit.

2) The moral hazard that comes with no regulation and obligation should have had more people crying than smiling.

3) I am a mathematician too ( economist and opportunist ) and can guarantee there is no mathematical formula for generating money out of nowhere. The only mathematics in place here is to ensure the longevity of this ‘entity’, thus the prey base.

I have a few points I want to raise, but lets keep it simple for now. Regarding people saying that MMM doesn’t need new members to join the scheme. If that was the case, then we can break it down and the scheme should be able to work with just 2 people in the scheme.

John provides help of R100 to Mary. After 1 month, John requests to get help of R130. Mary only has R100. Where does she get that extra R30 to provide help to John? She either has to take it out of her own pocket, or a new member has to join to make up this shortfall.

The biggest problem is that when the scheme is as big as it is now, people can’t seem to grasp the basics. I hope this helps in explaining why Hanna Ziady says that new members are needed to keep the scheme going.

Every financial institution needs new members. If not, we would not be getting all the ad breaks on tv for absa, fnb etc to advertise for people to switch banks/ open accounts. Financial freedom actually means people do not have to rely on highly charged loans to buy cars etc, which I guess is how banks make a significant amount of their profits.

How come nobody talks about the millions who played lotto but never won? Or the casinos and sports gambling houses like superbet which prey a lot more on the poor? That is how powerful mmm is!

Unfortunately your argument is flawed.

Firstly every financial institution does not necessarily need new members. Yes, they want new members, but only because this will increase their profits, not because they will not be able to survive without new members.

Secondly, MMM is not a financial institution, hence it cannot be compared to other financial institutions. Lotto is not against the law. The national lottery is a regulated institution. By being regulated it means it conforms to all the laws and lottery players are protected. If you get lucky and pick the correct numbers, regulation will ensure you are paid. MMM is not regulated and hence all members are at risk of losing their money. The same counts for casinos.

It is clear that members of MMM does not understand how financial institutions work and how they make money, which is clear when you use the word “guess” in your argument. Before you try to defend something, please make sure you do your research or at least listen to professionals.

Something else that I have heard a lot lately is: “MMM works so it cannot be a pyramid scheme”

Yes pyramid schemes work. But they always have a limited lifetime. Let’s take my previous example of John and Mary again. Both of them have a limited amount of money in their bank accounts.

John provides help to Mary of R100. John requests to get help of R130 after 1 month. Mary provides help of R130 (consisting of the original R100 and R30 of her own money). So at this time the scheme is working and everyone is happy. This process will go back and forth until one of them runs out of money because money is just exchanging hands and there is no real growth.

Hence one of them will lose lose money when the other do not have the capacity to provide the amount of help requested anymore.

Exactly, precisely, spot on! But the devotees will not listen. Theoretically with everyone following the same PH / GH + 30%, the scheme could reach the whole adult population of the world. It won’t but just pretend. There are no new members, so the last people to join will lose everything, then the scheme will roll up through the levels as it unwinds itself. All the money they have is now worthless. Having read the MMM ideology, it seems that this is the intent – collapse of the global economy. So go ahead and join – you will just be hastening the collapse. Even the early joiners will be affected because all that lovely money in their bank accounts is worthless. So who is the winner?

I have been counting the votes for and against MMM. On 27/4 at about 4 pm it stood at 290 for and 72 against. While the sample is probably too small to be statistically meaningful, a ratio of approximately 4 to 1 in favour indicates that roughly 80% of people are very wise or the same 80% are very stupid. We shall see…
(I excluded votes on Hanna’s posts as she is strictly speaking neutral, like the Speaker in Parliament – not).

And the most deceitful thing is testimonials of MMM members. “I’ve just received help!!!” they cry. This means NOTHING. Because the problem is that NOT ALL members receive help. In fact, every collapse means that some members receive NOTHING or less than they have invested initially. And every scheme in which some receive and some do not is a scam.

The more I read about this, the more it looks like one of those chain-letters, where you are asked to copy the letter 100 times and send R10 (or whatever) to the person you got it from. And you will be in for very bad luck if you don’t follow the “rules”. What they don’t say is that you will be in even worse s$$t if you do follow the rules!

The right wing conservatives think they figured it all out, think again. Whether it’s the bank, government or lottery the system is all the same. Money goes to the richest and the poor are left in destitute. The bank has no money, it uses all your monies put together to borrow it to us at the higher interest rate. Wake up and smell the coffee, when you invest your money at the bank you earn an interest at rate of 6% p.a, yet when you take a loan the very same bank charge you 36 to 40% interest rate, they give it fancy names like unsecured loans and s****t like that. Let’s face it if everybody has to withdraw all their monies from banks there will not be enough money for everybody. Because the banks themselves are sailing on a minus. Let MMM participants enjoy their little world without all your interventions, they did not ask for it. Live on, MMM just like the banks can survive with or without new members. Burial schemes and insurances all apply the same ideology, “should one person need help other people’s money is put together to help such person” and the circle continues. Have you ever thought what would happen if all members of a certain burial scheme has claim money at the same time? How many people participate in Lottery yet jackpot winner is kept at the maximum of two? The government is a liability to it citizens, have you thought what will happen if everybody boycotts paying tax just for one month? Everybody is sailing on the negative and rely on continuous participation of other stake holders to maintain their liquidity. If Mavrodi was that evil like you want to sell him to us, MMM would not be operational in Russia, Live on! South Africa is a free country let people be free on how they spend their money or at least apply your critics equally and generally to all stake holders.

That’s true I’m the one who waiting I sent email to my guider but unfortunately no respond i sent email to support group they promised me that they will attend my issue before seven days they told me that i will get my 10% too so i will wait to see.since 22-04-2016 until today on 22-06-2016 nothing on my available withdrawn,transaction zero how i dont know this ponzi scheme.

To be honest really mmm play me I give help on 10-4-2016 and on 22-04-2016 is automatic unfreezing with conversion since then until today the 22-06-2016 please explain what we call?scheming people.i try to send email to those guider on my PO but still no respond.i go to support send message to them hear what they “we are very sorry about that and we know is not nice but we will attend your issue before seven days.and will give your money with 10% meaning 30% was a liar.i have those messages from them.yes maybe some went well but I’m not happy.i have all proof if anyone want me to prove it.

End of comments.

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