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Coming soon: A tax revolt

Could this be the straw that breaks the camel’s back?

It seems government is hellbent on pursuing the income South Africans earn in non- or low-income tax countries. And if it gets attacked by the press or individual tax payers for its plan, it can always say “it’s not our idea: it’s the idea of the much revered former Minister of Finance Pravin Gordhan”. 

Brilliant!

Even Gordhan himself cannot attack this idea as he was the one who introduced it into his budget earlier this year, just before he got the boot by President Jacob Zuma on the night of March 31.

It also shows how desperate government has become in searching for any kind of additional revenue to plug the growing deficit on its tax collections already evident in the first two months of the current fiscal year.

Some reports have been published that, based on current trends, Sars could be short of anything between R50 and R70 billion as far as its budgeted numbers for this year are concerned.

Soon you will be forced to count the change in your motor vehicle ashtrays and add that to your taxable income, it seems.

Gordhan’s forecast for expected economic growth has, again, been proven to be way too optimistic, as it has for several years in a row now.

Growth for the current fiscal year was forecast at 1.3%, but this is unlikely to be achieved. Most local economists (Old Mutual, Sanlam) as well as the IMF have already reduced their growth rates to anything between 0.5% and 0.7%. 

Other economists are not so sure and forecasts seem to be made with pencils nowadays, in case they need to erase their initial ones. Expect this trend to increase as there are so many variables as far as economic growth is concerned, including a potential downgrade of SA’s local currency rating towards the end of the year, which – if it does happen – will blow all economic forecasts out of the water.

Last week Treasury confirmed that it intends to go ahead with its plan to tax the thousands — if not tens of thousands of South Africans — who over the last 20 years or so have been forced to seek employment opportunities elsewhere.

How large this number is, is difficult to say, but South Africans are now working in places such as Dubai, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, UAE and even Thailand in ever-increasing numbers.

Many, if not most, of these expats have been forced to find employment outside of their home country due to early retirement brought about by Affirmative Action, a slowing economy and the big demand for the skills and high work-ethic of these South Africans.

The tax arbitrage of working in these low-income countries resulted from the so-called 61/184 day application of the definition of tax residency. Work an aggregate of at least 184 days outside of SA, of which 61 days musts be continuous at least, and you only pay the tax applicable in your host country, which can range from 0% (Dubai) and 15% in say Mauritius.

Now Sars wants to tax these South Africans, as much as a 45% marginal rate, even though the taxpayer has spent, if at all, very little time in South Africa. I come across many such expats who work overseas for 11 months of the year and spend perhaps a months or so visiting family and friends for the rest.

They make enormous personal sacrifices to spend time away from their families and friends, in order to send back money to keep the home fires burning. And the cost of living in many of these mid-east kingdoms and emirates is substantially higher than in SA. Any move to tax these incomes at SA rates will wipe out the advantages of working in another country.

On chat shows and in the comment sections of websites where this issue was discussed, both in February and this week, this issue was a hot topic. Callers, either from Dubai themselves or family members here in SA, were livid with these plans. The consensus was they would do everything in their power to disguise their assets. In short: they will now start cheating and hide their income as best they can.

On the one chat show I listened to someone raised the issue of Common Reporting Standards, in terms of which participating countries in the Organisation for Economic Coordination and Development (OECD) will automatically have to exchange information of assets worldwide in the future.

While this is true and will take some years to be fully implemented, another caller pointed out that responsible financial institutions will only be obliged to report assets in excess of $250 000 and also does not include residential property, for the time being.

This creates a handy loophole for South Africans who intend to fully break the law by (a) not declaring their income and (b) not declaring their assets.

By making use of these existing loopholes, a family can still build up a substantial nest-egg away from the prying eyes of Sars and the CRS.

What is not clear at this stage is whether Sars can force foreign companies in these jurisdictions to report salaries payable to South African taxpayers to the local revenue authorities. It also creates, in my view, the incentive for these affected taxpayers to consider aggressive tax avoidance measures. 

Do not underestimate what offshore tax havens will come up with in an effort to create all kinds if loopholes.

Tax morality in South Africa has, by and large and despite the obvious tax evasion revealed by the #Guptaleaks, remained quite acceptable by world standards.

In my little world taxpayers might grumble and moan but they generally pay what is due from them. 

But tax morality is under pressure from a variety of sources. Personal taxes in particular, have been creeping up on a wide front. Name it: taxes are much higher than just a couple of years ago, whether it be capital gains taxes, dividend income taxes, taxes paid by trusts and other conduits of income/capital.

Next in line is inheritance taxes and many concessions existing today will be gone in a couple of years, further adding to the pressure on disposable income for high net worth taxpayers.

Even low-income earners are using all kinds of techniques to avoid being caught in the tax net. How often does your plumber/electrician/odd jobber give you two prices: one on invoice and VAT-able and the other cash, which comes with a discount.

Is this the sign of things to come?

*Magnus Heystek is investment strategist at Brenthurst Wealth. He can be reached at magnus@heystek.co.za for ideas and suggestions.

COMMENTS   64

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actually I have no issues with this – simply because this is the situation that applies in many other countries – America and Aus being just a few examples. as regards sars running out of money – I believe that I have commented on this previously suggesting that inheritance tax MUST go up – as indeed tax on trusts, capital gains tax on primary residence (esp if you were a “favoured” group before 1994)must go up. you guys will need to re-read piketty’s capital. if you don’t have the time – here is a quick summary:-

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/05/economist-explains

Robert. Because you ‘outed’ yourself as a racist, a bigot and an anti semite in and article concerning the attorneys Bobroff in the last week, you no longer have any credibility left to give supposed learned opinions on what is happening in South Africa, so its would be appreciated if you chose some other direction until you have explained your indiscretions and stance. Until then your posts will not get responses from the people you offended.

You were requested to look into a mirror, face yourself, smile and sincerely say Scum. Did You?

hmm – by its very definition a racist is a bigot – so that’s one down. suggest you re-read my comment – i was talking about business ethics of bobroff and tannenbaum and their ilk. you may need to consult a dictionary

Talking nonsense as usual. Aus actually honours the DTAs with other countries and do not seek to tax employment income in addition to it.

is that so – gosh so all my years of tax service is completely wasted – don’t think so!!!!

may i suggest that you consider this very recent case: Landy v FCT (2016) AATA 754 -“living in Oman BUT taxable in Aus”. my invoice in the mail

Let me add my 2 cents to this debate. As a CA(SA) who studied the South African tax legislation in depth – granted that was well over 20 years ago before I left South Africa – I believe people have an incorrect understanding of what is being proposed. In my opinion, what is being proposed is to tax South African (tax) residents on their foreign earned income. There is a difference between being a South African RESIDENT and a South African CITIZEN. For me, I am a South African citizen but I am not a South African resident.

My comments apply to persons like myself who left South African many years ago (and are permanently based outside of South Africa) and not people who come and go frequently (for example offshore oil workers / flight crew, etc). If you have left South Africa and are working (i.e. resident) in the Middle East, for example, you are no longer a South African tax resident, yet you remain a South African citizen. The South African tax system is based on RESIDENCY (previously it was based on a SOURCE system). So only if you are a South African (tax) resident will you be taxed under the current proposal. All the South Africans working permanently in the UAE for example need not be concerned. I do not believe that we are the target of this proposed legislation, only those people who have are resident in South Africa for tax purposes. We are NOT South African residents for tax purposes.

That’s my interpretation anyway. Time will tell. At this stage I am not too concerned.

(PS — “South Africans are now working in places such as Dubai, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, UAE …” (Dubai is in the UAE)) 🙂

As a once CA(SA) now FCA(fellow of the CA’s in Aus) I salute you twice – once for getting the law right & two for leaving when you did!

If you have left South Africa and are working (i.e. resident) in the Middle East, for example, you are no longer a South African tax resident – incorrect.

Many South Africans works in UAE on a temp basis (regardless of the period spent outside SA) – who returns to SA thereafter, are SA tax resident.

You are right that SA tax works on residency, and that is irrespective of citizenship. Thus, an SA citizen can be a non-SA Tax resident, just like a non-SA citizen can be a SA Tax resident.

But how is tax residence determined? 2 Tests:
– Ordinarily Resident Test
This concept means that a natural person is a resident if his or her permanent home, to which he or she will normally return, is in South Africa. A continuous physical presence is not a prerequisite to be ordinarily resident in South Africa.

The courts have held, in ascribing a meaning to the concept “ordinarily resident”, that it refers to, for example –
• living in a place with some degree of continuity, apart from accidental or temporary absence.
• the place where his or her permanent place of abode is, where his or her belongings are stored
• a residence that is settled and certain and not temporary and casual; or
• where a person normally resides, apart from temporary or occasional absences.

Practically, if you keep belongings in storage (because you might return) or ownership of retirement specific accommodation, you can run the risk of falling foul of this rule.

– Physical Presence Test
This concept is time-based and is only applicable to a natural person who was not at any stage during the relevant tax year ordinarily resident in South Africa. This test is based on the number of days during which a natural person is physically present in South Africa – 91 Days per year + 915 days over 5 years with purpose of presence being irrelevant.

So you can see due to Physical Presence Test it is very easy to BECOME a SA Tax Resident and because of the Ordinarily Resident Rule it is very DIFFICULT to stop being a SA Tax Resident

Note: Any natural person who is deemed to be exclusively a resident of another country with which South Africa has entered into an agreement for the avoidance of double taxation is excluded from the definition of “resident”.

Thus like Charles rightly said, you are only going to be affected by the removal of 10(1)(o) if you are a Tax resident of South Africa. Thus, officially confirm that you are not a Tax resident of SA with SARS, and no worries. That will however mean getting rid of any possible indication that you are ordinarily present is SA like storage units, cars stored at the family for when you come and visit, retirement property for when you one day return.

Not quite the whole story. To avoid being caught by SARS’ latest gotcha (which come thick and fast these days) you must have moved your tax residency out of SA. This is a complicated topic, but is usually governed by the rules of a double tax agreement with your current country of residence.

If SA hasn’t signed a DTA with your particular country (not sure about UAE) then it will be harder to escape this new proposal, with all its injustices.Formal emigration – evidenced by completing form MP336 from the Reserve Bank and blocking any local assets above the R10m threshold – is probably the safest bet.

Because the United States is broke they have been searching the globe for countries with American money and threaten to punish banks that don’t comply. I have had to do 2 tax returns EVERY YEAR since I have been here. It is a sign of a BROKE government to whom YOU ELECTED!!

actually usa is not broke. its gdp to debt ratio is relatively normal – compared to some other countries (aus included)

US has massive amounts of debt and it’s no secret that they are struggling to fund it. Have to resort to accusing other countries of currency manipulation etc.. Debt to GDP ratios have been spiraling out of control for a while now. Sure compared to some countries, US might be “relatively normal”, but that doesn’t mean it has a healthy amount of debt.

And Piketty is a fool who cannot even apply context to his research. It’s like me saying we should have a common monetary union in Sub Saharan Africa, and don’t worry about drafting the policies, we’ll just use the EU’s… Kiff critical thinking.

The real issue here, Robert, is that there is massive corruption, maladministration, and pure idiocy in government and instead of actually trying to do something honest and address these issues, government/ANC/Zuma is just trying to squeeze the taxpayer more. The fact that you still refuse to acknowledge this as the main problem and instead choose to punt the “charge taxpayers more” rhetoric leads one to suspect you are a Zupta puppet… Are you?

And charge more on inheritance tax? So people who have worked hard their whole life and want to leave some security for their children must be punished? One must be punished for being financially responsible? Why? That is some flawed logic..

Or are you just trolling today?

You obviously have no idea what the USA’s unfunded liabilities are. Add about $80 trillion to its national debt and then tell me they are not completely and utterly insolvent

If they are not broke, then why do they have to raise their debt ceiling all the time?

Piketty wreaks of communism. An absolute no no. Especially this current government and every African government. Honesty and morality, does not exist in government and in collectivisation of any kind. Robertinsydney I am starting to think you are really from North Korea or a black man from africa. But one thing is for sure, you are dirty commi scum

yes – and i believe sa does have a socialist/communist government and very “left of centre”. so there you go!

@robertinsydney: You idiot !

You just earlier agreed with the whole article/Piketty etc

Now you agreeing SA govt is on the wrong track here.

Did you forget to take you pills again this morning ?

Let me add my 2 cents to this debate. As a CA(SA) who studied the South African tax legislation in depth – granted that was well over 20 years ago before I left South Africa – I believe people have an incorrect understanding of what is being proposed. In my opinion, what is being proposed is to tax South African (tax) residents on their foreign earned income. There is a difference between being a South African RESIDENT and a South African CITIZEN. For me, I am a South African citizen but I am not a South African resident.

My comments apply to persons like myself who left South African many years ago (and are permanently based outside of South Africa) and not people who come and go frequently (for example offshore oil workers / flight crew, etc). If you have left South Africa and are working (i.e. resident) in the Middle East, for example, you are no longer a South African tax resident, yet you remain a South African citizen. The South African tax system is based on RESIDENCY (previously it was based on a SOURCE system). So only if you are a South African (tax) resident will you be taxed under the current proposal. All the South Africans working permanently in the UAE for example need not be concerned. I do not believe that we are the target of this proposed legislation, only those people who have are resident in South Africa for tax purposes. We are NOT South African residents for tax purposes.

That’s my interpretation anyway. Time will tell. At this stage I am not too concerned.

(PS — Dubai and the UAE are / are in the same country)

From how I understand (hope), they are proposing tax laws in tackling people who do have ambiguous. Probably passed the physical presence test but is considered as a tax resident of South Africa in some ways. Regardless, if the implementation is to claim tax money to people who have left the country for permanent or long term position, it is unfair to charge them tax as the income is not generated from South Africa source nor the taxpayer receives benefits from South Africa.

I would understand to impose tax obligation to SA based air attendants. But the rest who do not return to SA other than for holidays or family obligations, would be ridiculous. Considering Bermuda / Cayman Island workers who earn low / no tax salary, they pay extremely high consumer goods (with high VAT / import duties and shipping cost), to increase their tax liability to 40-45% of their salary will simply make their living impossible. A single orange costs ZAR 20 just for your reference.

It seems like it is the government’s last stretch to collect as much money as they can. Anyways, I do not think SA has the resources to do what USA is doing, nor does SA citizenship possess a great value people will adhere to unfair tax liability.

Charles, all this is moot:

In effect, eventually SARS wont give a sh*t if you resident/citizen/dead/alive/halfway in…half way out…breathing…not breathing etc

The reality is they are like Hitler in the last days of his Bunker – will resort to anything at this stage in desperation

They will bring into effect the full bullying powers stacked behind them where ever necessary [ which at this stage they are basically allowed to do – you cant fight them, they a law unto themselves….believe me, been there and bought the t-shirt] as they steal MORE and MORE from us hard working citizens each day

In other words, doesnt matter whether one tries to take advantage of some overseas tax break like this/trusts etc etc.

Just LOOK where the SIGNS are POINTING to….and SARS INTENT going forward.

It will become a full on CONFRONTATION at this rate, between US and THEM……..if not already there.

Let’s start with the fact that tax is necessary as many services that could be delivered could be more efficiently applied. Such services as education, roads, street lighting etc. Thus is the purpose of tax. However the government has chosen to overlook these obvious matters and want to use tax money to fill holes created by their incompetence, corruption and a unnecessary over bloated size !! This in my view is what will cause the tax revolt. People are fed up by incompetence, corruption and the view that some how if you are in government you have access to the government purse to use as you feel fit. This has to stop!

eTolls is the case in point where people have revolted against the system.

So how does the normal guy in the street implement a tax revolt?

Just about impossible. It needs business to stand up and withhold PAYE which they will not do.

What’s next SA taxpayers??

Super high tax on Offshore investments??

Removing / limiting proprietary rights on equities, other investments – forcing these to be repatriated and ‘clawed back’ by the SA government to uplift the masses in need? (remember -SAGovernme knows of every offshore investment legally made)

Yeah probably all of the above. I have previously said that the country will be running out of money- which is why I pleaded consistently to get yr investments offshore where govt can’t get their hands on it. Clearly fallen on deaf ears!

Firstly our rates are too high for an economy desperate from growth. Secondly the wastage e.g the lousy military, public works, SOE, inept Police, corrupt procurement policies is the real issue.

Further younger mobile people have already revolted with their feet( as have the real rich) and left the country.

This government must wake up to a mobile world where the quality people can and will move where things are better. The 2nd team will remain ans they have fewer options. A friend of mine was lucky-bought a house in Fresnaye in the 1990s , sold it for just over USD2m and has left for the US.Yes Cape town is pretty but not exclusively so!

PEOPLE OF MEANS in SA are actually double taxed because the taxes are not well spent on :
Education Health Security Public transport to name a few .
Civilised countries provide these and other services almost free or for a nominal charge.
Our taxes are largely wasted by incompetent government and soe’s .
No matter how much tax is raised it will never be enough.

Robert just shut up. You not part of the story, you have fled to Aus because you could not handle the heat in South Africa. Now that you are an Aussie you should know better about Aus tax laws. I have Aussies working with me offshore and they have broken tax residency. So not the same as SA.

What the fools forget is that many options are now available to expats to purchase passports and residency in other countries. Treasury should actually try and get Expats back to SA because eventually they will get their fair share out of estate duty and the proposed wealth tax on top of the usual tax out of property income and investment income. By forcing the guys now, who has <$250 000 in different accounts in tax free havens, it is easy to purchase residency. So this whole idea is short sighted. People should pay taxes in a country if they use the infrastructure and enjoy the protection of the police, law and order is respected, education and social support is provided. Unfortunately this is not the case in SA and what is required is for the larger corporates to stop paying PAYE to the government, until the money is utilized for the benefit of the citizens of South Africa

And where in Landy v FCT was there any reference to a DTA?

Uhm, none, because there wasn’t one.

Invoice rejected. Seems your tax service years were wasted indeed.

Based on residency not DTA! Invoice re-sent

We have to be careful as the following statement made above is technically incorrect – …the so-called 61/184 day application of the definition of tax residency. Work an aggregate of at least 184 days outside of SA, of which 61 days musts be continuous at least, and you only pay the tax applicable in your host country…. section 10(1)(o) is more complex than that as, inter alia, the services had to be rendered outside SA. It is not simply a “number of days” test only. The UAE is also a bad example as there is a recent DTA (Dec 2016)entered into between SA and the UAE and this DTA will, in the majority of cases, result in the person only being taxed in the UAE and not in SA. The removal of section 10(1)(o)will therefore have no effect on people who, in terms of the DTA, are deemed to be UAE tax residents.

Seems Magnus has got some of the technical issues mangled. Tho, as usual, he makes thought provoking points.
The legislation under consideration is currently an exemption for offshore sourced earnings by a SA tax resident. It is proposed that the exemption falls away. Tax residency is a separate issue covered by different (vague) legislation and case law.

So,the Sunday Times reports that the DTA was obviously for the benefit of the Zuptas. However,a person working in the middle east has no option of giving up his SA citizenship,since he won’t get citizenship of UAE or any of the other countries.
This matter should be taken to court,since it is reflective of a corrupt ruling party looking to loot from any source it can.even if it came from Gordhan.

It’s based on RESIDENCY not citizenship!

A natural person, who is ordinarily resident, spending time outside the Republic and who intends on returning to the Republic after his or her wanderings, is regarded as a resident, regardless of the period of time spent outside the Republic – Interpretation note 4

It may be worth noting that the mere INTENTION to return to South Africa makes one ordinarily resident of SA. For example, many expats are contracted for a set number of years in UAE or Angola etc – after those years, they go back to SA = Ordinarily resident of SA. The possible repealed section directly affects these individuals.

This however does not apply to people who moved out of SA permanently, still, breaking tax residency has an Exit Tax CGT implication.

Had a long winded post to this regard before seeing your post Andre. Much more concise.

And you are spot on, if you have that last tax return in hand where you have paid your CGT on exit, you should not worry about these changes.

Given how tax revenues are totally disrespected by Government, a tax revolt or some withholding until the Zuma cabal is gone has potential to shake Government out of its lethargy.

Bound to happen with SARS taking very long to pay TAXPAYERS their

side of the deal or looking for excuses not to pay.

And the big spenders on the other side i.e. SAA, SABC and ESKOM (Check their Bonusses)

The reality it is that most of the expats, as opposed to emigrants, i.e. those who are working in places like the Middle East and Africa, do maintain a major connection in S.Africa for example a home.. Many are working in countries where their residents permits depend solely on their contracted employment. Also most of them are doing this work, either because they have become unemployed here, or simply to get enough money together to hopefully be able to retire back here. Most send money back to maintain assets or build up pensions, they do not use any of the almost non existant services supplied by the state. What this will succeed in doing is probably forcing these people to emigrate eventually somewhere else withdrawing their assets from South Africa. Most of these workers are educated professionals who will be lost to our local labor force permanently.

the best way to deal with the coward in sydney is not to respond to his comments- he’ll find somewhere else to comment

Why must a resident pay tax? What is the purpose of an individual paying tax? Is it not for services rendered?

So here is an interesting Situation.

Dual passport holder (Swiss/SA). Left SA straight after University, thus never earned money, and thus never registered with SARS. Been living permanently in Switzerland and working for last 12 years. Never emigrated,as I didn’t see the Need.

This year decided to purchase a property in SA as an Investment and now receiving rental income, thus have registered with SARS.

Am I a SA tax resident or a non resident? Looking at the tests, I would say not, but the property does Change things, Even though the house is an Investment. Otherwise, I have nothing else in SA (no Family, no assets), now only the house which is only from this year.

You are not a SA tax resident.
Look for the following doc on the SARS website: “Comprehensive Guide to
Capital Gains Tax ” and look at the chapter on “when does a person become resident”
You will, however, pay tax on income and capital gains (IF there is a gain) on your SA property in SA to SARS.
What I would like to know is – do you have to declare this income to the swiss and if yes, claim a tax credit? And what is the mechanism to claim a tax credit from the swiss?

As far as I am Aware, yes I have to declare it to the Swiss. I think there is a DTA, so thus I guess I am then tax exempt in CH as it’s already paid. That’s at least as far as I am Aware, but can check with my local Swiss tax Consultant.

Turning this scenario around …if a SA tax resident owns a flat in say Pomland. You pay UK tax on the rental income there.
So do you need to declare that income to SARS and claim a tax credit?

I would say yes. Although I am not clued up on the SA tax System. But, if you are resident, then I guess you get some sort of tax credit for taxes already paid.

Simple solution …
Do as I did …
Emigrated legally ….
but prior to that, sold my house to a company.
after two years, retired my tax number legally …
I still own a company that remits dividends to me offshore …
total taxation … 28% company tax plus 10% remittance tax…
I’m happy I’m gone, and not directly or personally liable to any taxation in South Africa.
In the even that I wish to sever all ties … I’ll simply sell the real estate and windo down the company and Bob’s your auntie!

This is totally contrary to what I would recommend to my ex sa clients. Once u leave permanently divest yrself of all yr sa assets & get funds off shore. Exchange rate & ability to move funds are big improbable & can change overnight. Also costs of maintaining sa entities to be taken into account

Really Robert… What a jolly bunch you and your clients must be…

Gemini –

yup they (we) are very happy that we did the tough thing years ago.

Yes, you seem so content Robert.

@Gemini – your last comment made me laugh! Yep, you’ve summed up our friend Bobby down under.

Is there a limit on the asset value before declaring any interest,dividend or capital gains?

Nope. You do however receive exemptions:

R40 000 per tax year for CGT

R23 800 / R34 500 (over 65) per year for interest

Dividends are taxed at 20% withholding rate, meaning tax is taken off before being paid. This is referred to as Dividends Withholding Tax. No exemptions provided.

But to answer your question, no, there is no limit

wrt interest:
Usually, the (SA) bank sends me a doc for the tax year showing how much interest I accrued over that tax year. One year the doc did not show up. I asked why and they said “below threshold”
I could never find out what the threshold is.
Now, this is relevant for say a euro bank account. If you earn a small amount of interest, you should declare it. But what is the threshold?

From the various responses it is clear how important superior and proper tax guidance has become.
Question – what about if I emigrate fully to Botswana or Namibia for instance, move the personal assets, set up house there and then just rent a lovely furnished town house in a security estate in S.A. to see friends and family from time to time or for holiday purposes, shopping, going to the theatre, etc (as a visitor or illegal emigrant). Continue to work and earn elsewhere in the world but now one are free from S.A. grab taxes and thankfully not in Aus.
Can that work?
I will rather contribute to Botswana for instance.

Look at the SARS doc I mentioned above or similar and consider the physical presence test. Are you willing to spend that many days outside of SA outside of a five-year cycle?

Its got to the point now that by paying tax in SA you are knowingly aiding and abetting crime. How does one deal with this morally?

I would like to make the suggestion to Moneyweb, that they conduct a full interview with RobertinSydney, establishing his history, and much, much more. We need to know a lot more about the person behind the voice. Let’s face it, he has become an integral part of the comments columns, may even be a touch boring without him.

Get MH to conduct it, spice it up a bit(RIS is in desperate need of that) and let the truth be out!

Snowy, even better, just ignore him!?? He is a typical ex-Saffa that is totally bored down-under and always needs to justify to himself why he left SA, by invading SA web-sites.
Irrespective of the drivel he writes, just ignore him.

Moneyweb, why are you withholding my reply to @charlesarnestad regarding SARS ????

And ‘robertinsydney’ regarding US debt ???

Stop stirring! We all know you don’t subscribe to what you (cynically) advocating. That’s why you buggered off.

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