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7 questions about expropriating land without compensation

As uncertainty mounts over property rights, it could be a long road before SA expropriates land without compensation.

The stage is set for the government to push its radical proposal of expropriating land without compensation.

On Tuesday, MPs voted in favour of a motion to begin a process to amend Section 25 of the Constitution to allow land expropriation without compensation.

Read: Vote in parliament moves land reform closer

The matter will be referred to the Constitutional Review Committee, which is expected to recommend whether Section 25 should be amended. The committee is expected to report back before August 31, 2018, on whether changes will be made.

1. Why is the government eager to expropriate land?

SA’s land-reform programme is widely regarded to have failed since 1994 given the lack of support from the government for farmers once they become landowners and massive backlogs in processing land claims.

The land reform failures have resulted in most farms and estates still being owned by white people. A land audit undertaken by the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform in 2017 shows whites own 72% of SA’s farm and agricultural land.

The government is under pressure to fast-track land reform. It views expropriation without compensation as a mechanism to redress imbalances of the past, reduce inequality, promote land ownership and agricultural sector participation by black people.

2. What are the proposed changes to the Constitution?

At its 54th national elective conference in December 2017, the ANC resolved to expropriate land without compensation. To do this, it implored the government to begin a process to amend Section 25 of the Constitution. This clause currently prohibits expropriation of land without compensation. 

In the event of expropriation, the landowner and state or a court must agree to a “just and equitable” compensation. Compensation is important as the Constitution recognises that owners have mortgages on properties, use their land for productive purposes, or that a property is their primary residence.

Under Section 25, the state can expropriate land in order to fast-track land redistribution, for public purposes or in the public interest. For example, the state might expropriate a person’s property to build a hospital, public transport network or a dam – but compensation must be paid.   

3. What kind of property does expropriation apply to?

There is no certainty on which land has been earmarked for purposes of expropriation. Residential, agricultural, communal or urban land might be up for expropriation.

In his State of the Nation Address, President Cyril Ramaphosa said expropriation of land without compensation must be done in a manner that doesn’t harm the economy and improves food security. The exact meaning and mechanics of how this will be done is yet to be clarified.

Judging from recent debates on the merits of the Constitutional amendments, MPs have indicated that the state is mainly targeting expropriation of agricultural land.

4. What happens to agricultural debt?

Latest figures from the Department of Agriculture, Forestry, and Fisheries show that agricultural sector debt was over R144 billion in 2016. The burden to the state might be enormous as it would have to buy debt that is bonded to agricultural land if it plans to expropriate land without compensation.

5. What happens next after the motion was passed?

The matter is now with the Constitutional Review Committee, which will review whether expropriation without compensation is prudent. The committee will work around the wording of amending Section 25 and how much of the current pieces of legislation would have to be repealed due to the amendments.

The committee has to report back to Parliament by August 31, 2018.

A white/green paper, which will outline the policy proposal to expropriate land, will be developed and engagements with lawmakers, attorneys, and the public will begin across SA’s nine provinces.

6. What about the parliamentary vote to finally pass the amendment?

The proposal would have to be approved by at least six of the nine National Council of Provinces. In addition, two thirds (about 67%) of the National Assembly would have to agree to change Section 25. Given that its majority has been on a steady decline, the ANC only holds 62% of the seats in the National Assembly. It has to look at joining forces with other opposition parties like the EFF (holding 6.4% of seats) to change the Constitution.

It has been argued that if changes to Section 25 – which forms part of the Bill of Rights –  impinge on the founding values of the Constitution, then a 75% majority might be required. This might require taking the matter to the courts for a declaratory order. 

7. How long will it take to confirm Constitutional changes?

Bulelwa Mabasa, a director at Werksmans Attorneys, reckons it might take years as SA’s entire legal jurisprudence on property ownership is affected fundamentally.  She said expropriation of land without compensation impacts other pieces of legislation that have to be reviewed. These include the National Credit Act and Expropriation Act, which contemplates just and equitable compensation. “It is a complete philosophical shift on how SA has looked at property rights and ownership,” she commented.

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When the law is perverted in order to take your property, it implies that your most prized possession – your life – has no value under the law.

“What our generation has forgotten is that the system of private property is the most important guarantee of freedom, not only for those who own property, but scarcely less for those who do not. It is only because the control of the means of production is divided among many people acting independently that nobody has complete power over us, that we as individuals can decide what to do with ourselves.

The fact that German Antisemitism and anti-capitalism spring from the same root is of great importance for the understanding of what has happened there, but this is rarely grasped by foreign observers.”
― Friedrich A. Hayek, The Road to Serfdom

This is exactly how we felt when the land was taken.

I see a statistic that 70% of land changed hand in the last 20 years. So we’re talking about mostly people who bought land under a democratically elected black government after repeatedly being reassured that land grabbing was not an option and property rights were respected. These people invested most of their work and lives into those properties, so i guess it doesn’t take a genius to see this process is going to lead to many deaths.

Taken from who?, the Koi and San, time to learn your history, this all belong to a very small minority, before your fore fathers been here, Koi and San, which been downgraded to a non existent group, with no rights, not even recognition as indigoes to SA. Why? if the Koi and San get their original place and recognition – even you are a colonialist and land thief. All this so deliberately done at Codesa by no other than CR.

Google “Africa Migrations” see where your fathers come from,…O forget, you were born here,…Sh!t, same as me.

And exactly how the people felt before that when some tribe conquered them.. The history of the world is one of conflict. Look at the UK and it’s history of the Celts, Vikings, Saxons, Romans… But that does not mean we should resort to that kind of regressive thinking. We’re in the 21st century now, it’s about time we started acting like it. Property rights and education are the cornerstone of civilisation, whether you like it or not.

So we should just forget that dispossession actually happened;I mean we’re in the 21st century after all?

When you say “how we felt when the land was taken”, are you talking about dead people that lived hundreds of years ago? How do you know what actually happened and how these people felt?

Eish, you are so programmed to think in a certain way. No land was ever stolen. It was bought, negotiated and fought for – as per the traditions and methods of the time. By the way, did black people ever own any land at all – considering that all belonged to the chief?

Under the current proposal no-one gets the land – it goes to the State. This should be fought because it isn’t what anyone wants. We want the land to be held equitably by South Africans, not the Government.

Hlubi…judging by the comments, I think that you got owned!

Anything that was stolen should be returned to the rightful owner without delay. This is why we all pay taxes, so that the redress could take place within the law. If this process is not effective, it is not the law that is to blame, but rather the inefficiencies of the ruling party that is to blame. People should have land to live on and to bury their dead, there can be no compromise on this. This is the basis of dignity. The fact that people do not have land to live on or to bury their dead is again a failure of national and local government. People should appoint competent politicians and not change the law because politicians are corrupt and incompetent.

We should not forget that property owners pay for their “sins of the past” in the form of income tax, property taxes, capital gains and huge inheritance taxes. They paid for the “sins of their fathers” long ago.

@ Hlubi – while I agree anyone forcibly dispossessed of land should be fully compensated, I simply dont believe that all white-owned land was sourced in this way. It just isnt historically feasible. Firstly, it is a fact of history that the western cape was not settled by black people at all, because their crops and animals did not like the climate.

Then secondly – what was the black population in the 1700-1850s when most of the land was scooped up. 1 million? 2 million? It simply isnt believable that the enormous spaces of SA were ALL claimed by black people because even today, with the population over 20 times larger, there are still large amounts of just empty land, even in the most populated provinces like Gauteng and KZN. So most of this land must just have been empty at the time. Also, the white settlers were few in numbers, had families with them and using slow-firing single-shot weapons. They had no military training or artillery. Again, it is not feasible that they would have actively targeted existing tribes who far outnumbered them and who were used to warfare. It is far more likely they would have avoided pitched battles and simply found land that was unused. I am not saying dispossession never happened, its just that it cannot be all white-owned land and is likely to be a small minority.

Yes forget about it and focus on a productive future. What happened 300 to 150 years ago is just the way it happened and the way it should have happened.

Without more advanced peoples at that time moving in and adding the immense value they did the whole world with the exception of Europe and China would be a dustbowl. Those complaining now would either never have been borne or dead. They and their forbears would either have starved to death through over copulation or been killed during the never-ending tribal wars.

Get over it and get on with the future. You have been given a very big helping hand. Take it.

If you cannot get over it and want your land for free then at least be honest (difficult) and set off the current education, cars, roads, trains, internet etc that a more advanced set of people at that time facilitated. You will find that you are indebted heavily to those that you wish now to steal from.

Were you there when the chiefs bartered for the land? Have you invested anything in it to claim any rights thereto or do you just want it as a hand out? If this was a government priority why has it spent less than 2% of our taxes on resolving it. Instead it stole the tax and now it proposes to steal the land as well.

I suppose the question the ANC must ask themselves is how far they think the whites will go to defend their property rights. If you take away one of the most basic of human rights and there is little or nothing left to lose what do you? I think most of us know the answer to that.

I agree….land must be taken back. In the end, I prefer to see 40+ million of my fellow Africans to die of famine. Right? (My fellow Zim & Moz brothers also need to relocate back across….surely there’s plenty of food for everyone in Zim or Moz?)

One more thing, the 97000 people who were dispossessed of their land due to apartheid were paid compensation/given land back by 2013 already. This process is finish and klaar!!! Any more claims is now just moaning for undeserved free stuff.

This isn’t facebook. There is actually a collective of intelligent people on this website, who can construct arguments together.

Dropping the race card at every opportunity won’t work either.

This affects everyone.

You think you’ll be able to sell the land? You think that the government will actually just hand out land? Please, do me a favour.

If you can’t see past the greed and corruption that has been smeared on the SA timeline over the past 24 years, then you must be blinded by the false promises the ANC are delivering.

Isn’t it ironic? That Cyril gets appointed as president and the first waves are about going Zimbabwe style into the abyss. The nomadic tribes with their few cattle and mud huts had no title to the land and even if they did, how would one ever legally trace the land to any rightful owner. C’mon poor and impoverished majority population! you can’t get rich quickly like that, you have to work and be smart to get anywhere. Dragging the country down with more theft will just make you poorer.

You are a small boy with fat lips just like Julias.

People seem to forget that for a large part, the land which was bought(genuinely as is stated) by large part of the minority(white people) was done so as a direct benefit from the apartheid policies, which enable a large number of the privilege few to have the means to purchase this land in large potions.That is where the issue is. Yes the ANC has not done their share to right this right, but it needs to be put right.

The past is in the past, but you keep on recalling that. Its not our fault what happened, yet we must pay. So many schemes to help you, but you are not satisfied with any thing. Even when you get the land you are not going to be satisfied, there after you are going to say that you never had the opportunity to have R 1 million, and whites have to give it. Or you want the white people’s vehicles.

You will always remain unsatisfied.

The past is past. Present is your Zuma friend stealing OUR money, now with that being said do we claim the R 40 Billion tax gap from you black people now??? No we don’t even though you voted for him, you are not responsible for his theft. The same way we are not responsible for the past. So get over it and build your future, just like I have to.

The past has significance to what happens in the future. Stop claiming not have anything to do with it, hiding behind mummy’s skirt and own it, it happened and there is an imbalance. What you should be saying from now on is how can we help to fix this imbalance instead of crying victim. Don’t believe the hype that all black people are lazy, some are doing extra ordinary things, but your Caucasian brothers and sisters choose not to see it. This is Africa and more and more of the African people are rising to the needs of our poverty stricken land, our time will come.

Your time will come when there are ashes of a once vibrant economy. A time when there is nothing left to fight over and you can graze your goats on the ruins. Only then, once the caucasian brothers and sisters have fled and you lie starving on the parched African soil may you possibly appreciate what there once was!

Flee my Caucasian brothers and sisters flee, and I don’t doubt Africa will go through its hardship of transition, but change it will, with or without your help, I and many more African’s will make sure of it, mark our words….

You are a small boy with fat lips just like Julias.

Yes with the emphasis on BOUGHT! Blacks have enough economic racial policies to benefit from and buy their own land. In fact those policies are 100 times more than what white people could benefit from under Apartheid. If 80% of land recipients did not prefer land rather than cash blacks would have had more land by now. 1.8 million agricultural land already bought from whites are still in government hands.

Private property has the following benefits:
– Owners of property look after it better.
– Owners of property can use it as collateral on a loan to further improve it
– It solves the “tragedy of the commons” problem. This is a biggie.
– It drives investment as the owner knows their investment today will benefit them tomorrow.
– It drives economic growth, jobs, innovation and competition.

Socialism/Communism does the following.
– Destroys the economy (Zimbabwe, Venezuela, North Korea, East Germany, etc).
– Increases corruption and cronyism.
– Causes famine.

Here is another choice question:

Why did the ANC government not use the embedded facility within the current constitution that allows for expropriation that with “just and equitable compensation”?

I’m of the opinion that the EFF is driving ANC’s policies because of votes. Why I say this? From 1994 to date; these matters were on the table but very little was done. Why the urgency ? VOTES, VOTES and VOTES.

There is no plan; except wild statements from all concerned. However, the debate needs to be made. The EFF and DA are having a fall out because of this.

Why don’t we all just abandon the 21st century and go farm with three chickens and a goat in our back yard?? Now that is progress!

Not so simple. Two of the three chickens will be owned by King Zweli.

The government wants to take property without compensation and give it to people that doesn’t do anything productive with that property. Thereafter the government will fund that person to get the property productive, still the property remains unproductive. Yet the funding will come from taxpayers, the very same people that searched hard for a job after loosing his property without compensation will pay the taxes to fund that property.

What smart system is this, giving hard work properties that was self bought and self developed to the success that its in today, to a non productive person that is going to sit on his @ss and wait for additional compensation.

Continue on with this racist scheme and the country will be without food. Nothing comes free, its only at the expense of others. And there is no more room for expenses.

To Cyril, you make all these racist promises to the majority of the population only to win votes, because everything you want to implement is racist. You want to strive to a non racial country by pushing white people into the ground. The mistake you make is to think that white people got everything for free, when in fact white people work hard for what they have, white people’s ancestors worked hard for what they had an passed on. White people suffer under the taxation law to fund your pocket and your racial promises.

Why don’t we taxpayers have the say, seeing that we are the ones funding these absurd projects.The government is blind to what they are doing with grants and racism etc.

In a business its the funding individuals (directors and shareholders) that make decisions regarding the business and the distribution of the funds. Yet the funding individuals and companies (taxpayers) don’t have any say in the laws of the country or the distribution of the funds.

In conclusion I say the following, lets redistribute the land of Zuma, the Guptas, Cyril, Gigaba and all other corrupt people without compensation.

I dare you Cyril distribute all your properties without compensation.

land must be taken! finished and klaar!!! it’s payback!!

Sure, no problem. You can farm and the non-blacks will work office jobs.

You talk of payback, yet you were never in those times. At those times it was war. Do you want a civil war again?

Answer this smart pants, why are you killing the boere? for payback?

You don’t think clearly, you don’t understand the impact of a civil war.

We gave you voting rights, we ended that era to give you a chance, yet you are trying everything to suppress the whites and you are pushing towards another cyvil war. Looks like it was a mistake.

We are living together with you, trying to boost you everywhere, yet you want everything for free (at the expense of others).

Do you really think if all whites leaves the country, that SA will be better. Because we brought infrastructure, majority taxation and much more. Think a bit further into the future. Congrats if you have SA, then America or Japan will take you over so bad.

Think clearly.

MoneyChief – I don’t think it is going to work, because all the land that has been given to black people is currently un-productive. They don’t understand farming.

We all need to work together to build the country, just a shame the blacks are not willing to assist in this process.

Speaking of blacks as the majority of them, not all of them.

then take the land as an individual, don’t let the government take it.

Yes it is payback time.

Time you paid for the knowledge that built the roads, bridges, sewerage systems, power stations, dams, railway lines and carriages (that you burn gleefully), university, high school and primary school, the whisky you swig.

You can have the vacant, barren undeveloped land that you claim is yours.

Give back everything else. You and your children will be in debt till you die.

Have a nice day.

Surely expropriation without compensation means that the bond holder loses out as well? If not, then there is no way that the state has sufficient funds to expropriate all the land. Also the answer then would be to take your money out by bonding your property to the hilt so that the one that loses out is the finance house and not you.

Especially if you have a bond on an empty piece of land, i would say now is the time to max out that bond.

what a non-issue this all is…I have paid off both my properties and keep the mortgages open, and also re-mortgaged both so I have access to funds that more or less match the current value of the properties. The title deeds still show that the bank owns the properties, so if any of this ever goes further, and it won’t, then I simply transfer all the paid up monies out of the accounts to my offshore account, and then ‘they’ can fight for the land with the bank, I could not care less…

I’m all right Jack.

Hahahahaha get real.

You have to pre-empt the system to be able to extract any value. I suggest you get a moving right away…

The banks are not idiots, good luck getting a bond if their security package is worthless. At best they hike rates so high, the bonds are paid back before a slow retarded bureaucracy is able to process the expropriation. Like the rest of Africa, investment is premised on a less than 3 year payback period i.e one political guard (lol as if the dictators ever leave). Watch the LTV ratio’s get ramped up aggressively, locking everyone out of the property market… Ya communism’s unintended consequences.

When they implement capital controls/echange controls again and you cant move money offshore good luck getting any value out of here…. All them Kruger Rands going to dissapear very quickly. And dont punt bitcoin, you have to move through a bank into the crypto-system, banks will be unable or unwilling to assist (as arguably the whole system that wants to steal from you will be rigged comprehensively and completely)…

I have a flat on the third floor of a block of flats in the city. It is about 64m2 in extent. I am willing to hand my property over to the state, but they will have to take over the bond since I cannot rent it out anymore as I am no longer the owner. It is perfect for farming, provided that you farm with miniature cows the size of Jack Russells. Thank you & God bless.

theoretically you could take the money out by bonding your property…..but the banks will be very quick onto this…..they never lose, except when there is a big time default
So : the farmers/property owners pay tax (=protection money historically , that is the root of tax). Ancient times you paid your Lord/Chief/Mafia boss protection money to go about your business and protect you from raids by the neighbours .If you dont,, well then you are on your own .That protection money evolved into tax. The primary function of tax is protection , if that relationship breaks down (the mafia boss defaults on his duty and you get raided by the neighbouring Mafiosi) , then you will be inclined to withhold your PM , or perhaps shift it to the new kid on the block
The other side of the coin says:
if the Mafia Boss cant protect , he is WEAK and he is a prime candidate to be eliminated—either externally(new mafia boss) or just by a general protection money default where the system collapses into anarchy
So: we are sitting with a weak government that offers very little , very close to nothing , for protection money paid .A weak government wont last, it will revert to the greater chaos or greater dictatorial rule
In the mean time Big Money fiddles , plays Mr Cyril , good Cyril so that the Runt remains stable and afford them time to relocate their protection money first
Not fun times

Yes if property rights is not kept I will not pay a cent in municipal rates neither will I pay any other tax.

The fact is – CR still committed to the “freedom charter”, ANC/EFF and other all confirmed their support to “our people”, exclusive to the whities. Respect to “Cope” on asking who is “our people”?? to the r@cist bias statements from ANC/EFF.

None concern about food security, economy or rights, but just the survival and power struggles (Africa History). Property theft is the last bargaining tool for the power hungry ANC/EFF for votes. All other excuses – apartheid, colonialism, WMC, has been used up, even to the uneducated.

“expropriating land without compensation” – the first prick to the “Ramaphosa bubble”, with a glimpse of the true face of deception …SA now managed by Unionist/communist ideologies.

ANC/EFF does not have years on the issue of land.This matter will be done and dusted with ANC deception before the year is over, the “our people” want land – whether by theft, occupation or blood (notable spikes in farm attracts, associated after these type of expropriating land statement by ANC/EFF).

This could really get interesting.
Can just imagine the residents of lower Sea point smashing and grabbing Ramaphosa’s new R40 bar
Digs at the top of fresnaye all in the name of expropriation.

I think the whole things is somewhat alarmist, since all that has changed since December is to have a committee. The ANC already voted to look at this then, but at that stage no-one was alarmed?

Secondly, the motion that the EFF proposed is not the one that is being promulgated. What is terrible about all this, is the usual perception side will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and it creates fear. The fear leads to lower investment and poverty, when all of this is showmanship for votes.

These types of proposals will continue to exist so long as the majority is poor – it is called tyranny of the majority. It is the reason why taxpayers have no say, it is because they are the minority.

“‘We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force”
Ayn Rand

Research from last year indicated that only 1% (down from 2% the previous year) of Blacks thought land ownership would create equality. 72% said jobs would achieve that goal.

So taking away land, ie jobs from Blacks, would achieve exactly the opposite.

We can only have one. Either jobs or Land really simple choice. Pity most people don’t grasp this concept!

Why didn’t they just table a motion to build concentration camps with gas chambers where White people must go to die? (The constitution will be changed and it will be perfectly legal off course.)

This motion was really like 10 dogs and 2 chickens voting about what’s for lunch.

Well since property rates and taxes, including transfer duties, are linked to property value, I assume that SARS and the municipalities will factor in this economic shortfall, since, essentially, property will become void of any value. Oh, and refunds will be expected on prior payments…

Practical issues with implementing expropriation of land without compensation and diminishing agriculture output will contribute to political instability, poor economic performance, worsening unemployment and debt levels, more credit-rating downgrades and reduced investor confidence. All this put pressure on the rand over the medium term. Increase your offshore investments while the rand is still relatively strong.

You are blasting SA back to stone age. Good job. America will build houses on the moon and SA will live in “shit” (dung) homes with animal fur as clothing.

Congrats. Its like some idiot hit the restart button.

Lets instead talk about scrapping all taxis from the road of SA. As this is a present matter, not a past matter. Its proven that taxis cause more than 90% of accidents in SA killing black, white and all other races in SA, the taxis also disobey more than 80% of the road rules and laws.

So to get rid of this present matter (present means current, and not in past), we can scrap all taxis.

Easy solution to create a saver and better SA. Nice suggestion right. This suggestion is a blind suggestion without thinking of the consequences of it or how blacks will feel when its implemented.

Saddens me to know that this is the way that you think of the land expropriation. Without considering white people or the consequences.

I think removing taxis will actually be a nice idea as they are currently (not in past) placing a lot of lives at risk, and only thinking of themselves, not others.

Hope you read this carefully so that you don’t misunderstand anything I typed.

sorry Messers Seeff,PGolding,Remax,Berman Bros et al, I’m not buying/investing in any property – residential,commercial or agricultural – in SA, until my property rights are fully guaranteed by the government.You guys should be lobbying hard..

Surely now they will have to consider the longstanding claims from neighboring countries for land that belonged to them before British colonialists came?

Swaiziland has valid claim to most of Mupumalanga and Northen KZN,

half the Free state should go back to Lesotho.

North West Province to Botswana.

lets be fair if we are discussing land restitution before the colonist arrived.

The comedy becomes even more apparent if you include the activities of erstwhile black monarchs under the definition of “colonialism”.

We must give back the land the way it was when acquired. And so before any land is handed over we must take a wrecking ball to it & destroy anything that has been added over time. Afterall it is so much better to live in mud huts.

That or they pay in hard cash (not bitcoin) for the improvements to the land, all infrastructure, grants, TV +++ 10 000 other things

Attention all farmers that may loose their land:-

Burn your house and outbuildings/stables to the ground.
Take your tractor and destroy all your cultivated land and improvements
Remove all your boundary fences.
Burn your tractor.

When they come knocking on your gate, they can have the land back the way you “stole” it.

“Did the Strandlopers live in Clifton?… I am sure my ancestors said so. Yippee my Clifton Bungalow dream may come true”

Overheard between an EFF & ANC member in the know.

It is called theft

I read all 55 comments and was quite fascinated and the same time a little distraught. It brought to mind Cyril’s boiling frog analogy. Forced evictions may cause violent confrontations and I don’t think Cyril wants that. He will act slowly and bleed us dry in a gentle way always acting like a gentleman. If you are youngish or very rich time to leave my friends.

question 4, irrelevant because Banks will be nationalized as well.

I am a “Privileged” elderly “white” male with post graduate qualifications. I would have loved to have been a farmer but never had sufficient money to buy a farm or enough land to start one. I am an African. My roots are so diverse that I cannot trace my ancestors back to any race or single country, nor would I ever qualify to gain any European passport. I would also like to be given land for free, but that concept has never entered my mind. I know that I, my father and two grandfathers never took land from anyone – every property we owned was bought and in all cases it took a lifetime to pay off. If I were a farmer right now, I would bond my farm to the hilt and invest the proceeds in any stable economy. Our new President’s proposal is obviously designed as a vote catching strategy to counter the EFF, but the economic impact on the poor people who this is designed to benefit, could be disastrous. Ask any Zimbabwean. As a result of Mugabe’s land restitution program there are white Zimbabwean farmers, doing pretty well and creating jobs and economic activity all over the world. The people who previously worked on those farms aren’t as happy. The country of Zimbabwe is bankrupt.
90% unemployment is not a statistic any country should try to copy!!!
But almost all African countries seem determined to follow one another down this path to economic ruin. The only way to GIVE people land and economic prosperity is via “Real” education and a truly free economy where everyone has the right to succeed or fail. When you start taking from those who have earned it to give to those who choose not to strive, you eventually run out of “other people’s money” and then your country becomes a failed state.

100% Aquilla with a small difference. I do have a farm, debt free thanks to 3 generations of blood, sweat and tears. It is my pension so I am queasy now. The writing, she is on the wall; has been for a long time; just tricky to read and people keep standing in front of it.

One thing I reckon; this will not happen in a clam, legal reasoned and / or principaled way.

Can white people qualify for some of the free land that’s going to be on offer? My fore bearers arrived here in 1679, worked the land and lived very deprived lives under very difficult circumstances. They didn’t leave us current generation any land so I consider myself previously disadvantaged especially seeing that no other country in the world will take us in – seems like white people arent accepted as economic refugees and migrants. So here we are – white with no land having been here for 300 years and still required to pay taxes ( which we’ve been paying for over 300 years now) and not an acre in sight! Seems unfair that I won’t be able to qualify for a snippet in Skelimbosch!

“still required to pay taxes” you say…

That is exactly how a TAX REVOLT is sparked.

Subject: FW: Legal Expert Opinion on Land Expropriation

A BRITISH LEGAL EXPERT’S OPINION ON EXPROPRIATION OF LAND WITHOUT COMPENSATION

Response written by Mark Philip Malcolm Horn – London Barrister. * No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.

“You can not have land expropriation without compensation. It is illegal in international law. It is contrary to a dozen treaties that South Africa has signed and ratified. As such, it is a principle that is also enshrined in South African domestic law. You can not change the Constitution therefore to make it legal – Treaty law is superior law, it always applies.

The proposal, if directed at land held by the white community, would also contravene half a dozen international treaties, notably those condemning apartheid, that South Africa since the ANC took power, has signed and ratified.

The same argument applies above, but now with the ironic twist that any such initiative would result in the ANC being condemned under international law for actions that the world would condemn as being racist.

So no, it can not be done. When Mugabe tried this, the point was litigated. These were the legal conclusions. Now, Mugabe pushed ahead, so what happened?

Well, the claims for illegal expropriation still are valid in law – at some point the Zimbabwean Government will need to pay them.

The consequence of their illegal policy is not forgotten with time. If they ever want to be re-integrated into the global community, they will need to pay.

As to the consequences of such a policy – Zimbabwe is a good example. There are no sanction on Zimbabwe. That is a myth. The only sanctions are those targeted on Mugabe and a few of his associates, and they are in place because of human rights abuses.

The economy has crashed, there is a 90% unemployment rate, for the very simple fact that Zimbabwe has shown itself to be a thief. No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.

You can not run a modern economy without access to the international market, and for that you need credit. The Zimbabwean economy has declined by 70% from what it was at independence simply because no one does business with a thief.

So what would be the consequence of a policy of expropriation without compensation in South Africa? Well, as noted, such a policy would be illegal.

The international community will immediately take note that South Africa has become a rogue state. That is not too much to worry, about, its just political. There are plenty of rogue states around the world.

What would happen, however, in terms of South Africa’s access to the international markets is of far more concern. South Africa would have signaled that property rights are insecure. That will mean that international investment in South Africa would come to a screeching halt.

This has been happening for many years in any event – that is why South Africa is now ranked no. 7 in gold mining, when it used to be no. 1.

It is why South Africa has a 27% unemployment rate, and a 50% youth unemployment rate. So the response could well be: “who cares, we do not need their investment”. That may well indeed be true.

But, that is not where the real crisis occurs. South Africa needs access to international financial markets because it has a trade and budget deficit. It needs access to international financial markets to pay for its bloated public sector, and to pay social grants to all those unemployed people.

To raise that money, it needs the banks. Now this is where the consequences of a policy of expropriation without compensation hits home.

Banks have, as is the nature of banking, highly leveraged Balance Sheets. They lend as multiples of the assets they actually have. They need to conform with the Basel ratio’s. If they have a rise in bad debt, they can easily wipe out their Balance Sheets – they then become bankrupt, and they collapse.

So what do you think will happen if land is expropriated without compensation to the Banks? The answer is, they will see a rise in bad debt, and they will collapse.

That is not the end of the story. South Africa has seen its black population rise from approximately 2.5 m in the mid 19th century, to its current level of 50 m. The 2.5 m may be taken as the sustainable level of the black population without the benefits of colonialism, and of modern agriculture.

That 2.5 m number is important, because only 13% of South Africa is suited for agriculture, and only 3% is high quality agricultural land. The vast majority of South African agricultural land requires the application of modern technology.

Farming in South Africa is highly capital intensive. Farmers depend on bank lending not only to buy their farms, but also to provide essential working capital.

So, what happens if the land is expropriated without compensation, if the banks then collapse? Well it means no one is able to provide the essential working capital. If the farms then collapse, then up to 95% of the existing black population is at risk of starvation.
The banks can not access international markets, international lenders will not lend, South Africa then descends into chaos. At point, the international community would probably intervene military to restore order. As such, South Africa would have become yet another Failed State in the traditional African mold.”

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Wow…it almost reads like an extract from RW Johnson’s book “How Long Will SA Survive”. Your explanation is as clear as day. Plain and simple economics & how global finance operates.

Plus, add to your valid points: the local commercial farming community produces food for 50mil Saffers WITHOUT any meaningful state subsidies (unlike in US and Europe being the case).

As we all realise, water stressed SA is not ideally suited to farming. HATS OFF to SA’ farmers…white, black, Indian or coloured!

Instead, I propose the OPPOSITE should happen to land grab….(like young doctors) all previously disadvantaged S’Africans should work on a commercial farm for 2 years as “community service”!! And they’ll learn basic economics in the process….for free nogal! How’s that for a solution?

Sell on rumours and buy on facts. Is what the smart money does.

The very fact that our much bragged about constitution that was negotiated AND AGREED TOO upfront is up for debate and possible change, highlights / proves yet again that you rely on agreements, treaties, laws or other forms of contract within Africa at your own peril.

Just look at the taxi industry and their views on road laws as nothing more than a mere suggestion to really understand how laws are viewed in Africa.

Sounds to me that Cyril has realised early on to trumpet to the masses. As Jonah Goldberg points out in his book on liberal fascism:
“In his unintentionally chilling 1890 essay, Leaders of Men, Wilson explained that the “true leader” uses the masses like “tools”. He must not traffic in subtleties and nuance, as literary men do. Rather, he must speak to stir their passions, not their intellects. In short, he must be a skillful demagogue.”

The influence of this mass hysteria is found in comments by the likes of Hlubi below, who make baseless, fallacious and racist arguments, to justify their form of liberal fascism. Like it or not, we are living in a fascist state, same as we were before 1994. And progress is not a concept these people understand, so we are doomed to suffer the fate of the rest of Africa.

So if the government owns all the land, then surely there would be an argument against PROPERTY tax? If I don’t own the land, then I sure as hell won’t be paying rates and taxes.

This is a monumental f up of note.

Anyone with half a brain can clearly see that this is a cheap tactic by the ANC to get back more votes, just in time for the 2019 election next year.

Following that, it will be years of talking and proposals, but the land bill will fall flat on it’s face.

What a bunch of BS

A verified report confirms that the A N C government spends more money (budgeted amount) on their security than for using to pay for land to be returned to those who have been dispossessed. Doesn’t that tell you exactly where their priorities lie and how well they look after themselves before the voters? What a smoke screen!! How cynical and callous can you be?

It seems the only reason Land Expropriation has failed is because “R144 billion in 2016” is `too expensive`?, however the Government is eager to spend many more on many other fruitless ventures? So, They’re basically saying: “lets change the rules because we want to waste money and have the land for ourselves.”. This is not for the people of South Africa, this is a selfish act by the Government. How can we stop the Government from taking South African freedom from us again?

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